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Mar 15, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37
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#81 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jan 2005
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A-net is doomed if Zashien Challenge/Zashien Elite are the norm. They are a tough change of pace for PvPers, but not very interesting generally.
At the risk of repeating myself, I don't the PvEers should be forced to PvP ever. This would include any mission where another human player can kill you. There needs to be more high end content, so the game lasts a bit longer. The content needs to be meaningful. At the same time there needs to be more meaningful PvP, volume and variety need to increase and it needs to be incorperated into the story. Factions has promised that doing certain PvE and PvP missions will unlock towns, cities and arenas/missions. If the PvE side of this is stupid or PvE light, then we will have an exodus of PvE players. If done correctly, this will mean that a PvE guild will choose missions based on what the alliance needs and there will be more objectives within the mission. In "Thom Wars", instead of a linear progression of missions which you return to randomly on a whim, you would have a reason to go back to a certain mission on a certain day. Our sister PvP guild is seiging the city? We will kill the PvE reinforcements and supply trains in the surrounding country side...scoring depends on how many of the 15 objectives we accomplish. Next day we hold the city, so while the PvPers are defending the walls, we are now questing in the new PvE sewers we unlocked. If we failed our alliance moves on to another town where the PvEers must defend the passes of a mountainous region against the hordes of Undead... that is "Thom Wars". Now I feel like John's "Imagine" should start playing in the background. "Imagine there's no Underworld, its easy if you try. No Fissure below us above us a night sky! Imagine all the PvEers playing for today... I hope someday you'll join us and the world will play as one!". I know that hardcore PvPers won't go for that, but not all PvPers are ladder/rank obsessed. I also know that hardcore RPGers won't like the increased structure, but some PvEers will enjoy meaningful structure (guild leadership, objectives, alliances). In other news: I would buy Factions for the skills only; spent more on CCG expansions in the day. I'll be purchasing Oblivion at some point and I played some 100 hours on Morrowind. |
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Mar 15, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46
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#82 |
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Draconic Rage Incarnate
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Iowa
Guild: Alphahive
Profession: R/A
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Beautiful post Thom, and I sincerely hope that Factions turns out like that. I'm not into PvP, at least in GW. Give me BF2 for PvP.
If Factions force-feeds me a bunch of PvP-style play, then I know I will be done. Hope it never happens. |
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Mar 15, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51
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#83 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Imagination Land
Guild: I Swear She Was Eighteen [Gwen]
Profession: W/
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Im a 60% pve and 40% pvp guy, right now im using my warrior while farming to get money and exp to unlock skills wihotut using my faction, i also use my pve cahr for pvp anyway, i think beeing able to play both at the same time is what anet intended
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Mar 15, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53
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#84 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: west yorkshire, Uk
Guild: Sisters of Serenity
Profession: N/Mo
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*claps like crazy at thoms post*
Finally! someone that sees something like both sides 0.o however, its not just missions where you pay agains another real world player that are pvp style...thirsy river is a PvP PvE mission....and it is forced down our throats for us to progress.... any mission where sucseeding groups in a small area attack, be t in single or group sets like that is too much like pvp for most of us..... waves and waves of mobs, sure, i get that....sneaky lill buggers that pop up outa nowhere, i can dig it, but forcing me to get into a small map and fight first one, then two and finally three groups of critters that fight *together*...and all this to get accended...no thanks.... the only pvp i actually enjoy is the snowball arena.... if they had more of that, tweeked to be non seasonal and just snowy, i am SURE here would be more PvE type players trying PvP with that in place. its fun, and you dont realy feel like you *have* to win..or that your a bag of flaming dogmess if your the one that accidentallly looses the team the match..its all good fun and not *serious*.... which is some of the reason that PvP turns some of us off.... hm.....how to better things....well,theres the random critter thing, as fols sugest...but i would say, NO to the making things always harder/smarter.... the higher the level of critters around, the fewer there should be sometimes....its not realy fair to make them run like buggery from ele's, when they (anet) keep upping the amounts in some areas just cause they dont want botfarmers-r-us to make cash.... nor is it realy fair ether to tweek stuff because in PvP it is being abused, where in PvE, its a stapel of keeping your head and not dying.... it would be much fairer to simply fix it ONLY in PvP, by fixing it in code In the Arenas themselves....it can be done, i say....! (which would make PvE more fun, allow anyone to have any build or combination they wanted to be ect) and to help fix the farmer-bot prob..well, i know its not the best way, but just have a a-net *licenced* trade site.... i will trade you a wad of in game cash, for a nice green item... and you have to regester, and they charge you a *small* sum for allowing you to trade stuff *legally* sure, some folks will still pay real world cash for gold/items on e-buy sites, but the majority of players would rather do things the leagal way, im sure... |
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Mar 15, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00
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#85 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Oct 2005
Profession: W/Me
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I think past interviews/articles seemed to indicate that nobody would be forced into doing PvP.
Currently the only place where you're forced to do any PvP is the little arena battle before post searing and that's not really that big a deal. My concern is the Alliance territory thing - not too sure I'm fond of the whole "PvE'ers need to rely on PvP'ers winning" to have access to their part of the game. Current favour system being the prime/only example... |
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Mar 15, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08
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#86 | |
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Raged Out
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Quote:
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Mar 16, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44
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#87 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The Gamespot article (front page on Guru has link) seems to confirm a worry of mine. PvE'ers are going to be waiting on PvP'ers to unlock "elite" missions and content for the PvE'ers to play in. So, if your guild plans on a Friday night mission and the servers redraw the battle lines; thus losing access to that mission... you're SoL. At that time I guess it's more farming, log and play something else or sit and look cute.
Since the article claims battle lines are drawn daily, nothing you can do at that point in time to continue on. Return next day? Yea, if everyone is available... This, IMO, will not work very well... and I am hopeful I misread the article (though I read it twice). I'm rather disapointed in this and am reconsidering the purchase of Factions after reading that. Such a bummer... can anyone correct me if I am not understanding that article correctly... please? 
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Mar 16, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15
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#88 | |
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I'm the king
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Aussie Trolling Crew: Grand Phallus and Chairman Pro Tempore
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Quote:
Edit: When I say "Wow" I'm expressing surprise, not being sarcastic. Last edited by fallot; Mar 16, 2006 at 04:18 PM // 16:18.. |
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Mar 16, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34
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#89 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tx, USA
Guild: The Infinite Monkeys [TYPE]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/guild...54&mode=recent 2. funny typo in that article, "rituatalist"..  3. relevant quote from the article: "There are faction battles, which are large-scale PVP battles that determine the strategic situation on the map. Once a day, the Guild Wars servers will calculate the results of all the faction battles for that day and then redraw the "front lines" on the map to show which side is winning or losing. You'll want to be a part of these wars, because if your guild alliance can gain control of a city, you'll have access to special events, such as parades, and to certain parts of the city that no one other than your alliance can enter, which will unlock the new elite missions that offer substantial rewards. The elite missions are geared toward the role players out there, because these are cooperative missions where you'll have to pursue a quest, not battle other players. Put this system together, and you have a way for PVP fans and role players to work together for the betterment of their respective guilds." I dunno, i could envision a situation where the PVP'ers haven't gained control of a section so the pure PVE'ers are stuck without access to a quest for a while, but really, that would seem to say "don't just play one side of the game, play both!" If you're stuck on the PVE side and want access to a particular quest, go make a PVP char and try to push the Faction battle forward for your side so you can get access to the quest. Don't just rely on others (whom you appear to despise) to do things for you. Seems to me like it's about mixing the two crowds, and bringing them out of the "I R PVE, I HATE PVP" and "I R PVP, PVE R TEH LOSARS LOLOLOL" mentalities and making it one crowd, the "We love Guild Wars!" crowd... A little competition won't kill ya (for long), and neither will working to get the things you want... eudas |
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Mar 16, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57
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#90 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Quote:
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Mar 16, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07
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#91 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Quote:
 sorryI find, and many others, PvP boring. I log into a game to have fun. If I do not find PvP fun, why would I want to play. If that's what is needed to progress my character, then I have "finished" the character. With no characters left, as I sit and wait for PvP to "win"... I leave. It's pretty simple actually. Here's an idea though, lets lock all PvP areas, high end ones, untill a PvE group completes a Mission or Quest 4 times in a row. Then for an hour or two, PvPers have access to the content they want to play. After that, PvE must do it again. In this, we can now hear some players cry "OMG I HATE PVE!!!11!!!1111 THE GRIND IS SO BORING!!!1111!!! I'M TOO 1337 TO PLAY PVE AND I HAVE RANK 3!!!!11111" and now we can all say together "We love Guild Wars!" Just a thought... edit: can't spell /sigh Last edited by WasAGuest; Mar 16, 2006 at 09:21 PM // 21:21.. |
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Mar 16, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19
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#92 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Quote:
If it is true though, theat we have to rely on PvP to unlock missions and quests, perhaps this can be answered: Do the areas that are locked (or needing unlocked) contain skills (elite or otherwise) or story line related missions which are required to complete the games campaign? |
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Mar 16, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28
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#93 |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Guild: :P
Profession: E/Me
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I have said there is stuff that pve players would like to have. the stuff pve players want would stay on the pve side only. these stuff could be any wheres from being mounts, dragons pets, very powerful or cursed weapons.Such things could be use in pve only, and not in pvp. whY beacause we all know it would unblance pvp game. but there is alot pvp players who say pve players should not have it period, Go figure on that one. Some of the pvp players don't even pve. LOL
Last edited by dreamhunk; Mar 16, 2006 at 09:41 PM // 21:41.. |
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Mar 16, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59
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#94 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Anet said guilds and alliances won't gain a large advantage form holding areas, so I doubt there will be any significant unlocks outside of generally accessable areas. Most of what you unlock would likely fall into the catagory of end game content (which is what prophecies lacked).
I don't have the details here, but you can piece together that much from published articles. |
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Mar 16, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53
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#95 | ||
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tx, USA
Guild: The Infinite Monkeys [TYPE]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
Quote:
i mean, i understand how you play a game for enjoyment, and don't want to play the parts that aren't fun for you, but there's more than just you involved here. if the userbase stays fragmented and only gets *more* fragmented, eventually one of those two userbase groups is going to just... leave. and then they have half (or less) of the players they did before, and that's bad for the game, and bad for profit. it's bad for the game, as they slowly ruin it trying to please two disparate groups who will never be pleased by the same product, and it's bad for profit, as those who leave not only stop playing but also don't buy expansions/sequels. so, hopefully, you see why uniting the userbase is a good thing for both players and the company, and a little compromise on mixing pve and pvp goes a long way. eudas |
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Mar 16, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55
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#96 |
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Hall Hero
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California Canada/BC
Guild: STG Administrator
Profession: Mo/
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I always have had this one question when going into post will we return to a rebuilt Ascalon like it was in pre but not exactly.Then the second is will we go up north to finally fight the charr and maybe the guild wars will start all over agian in Tyria.
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Mar 16, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57
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#97 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Guild: :P
Profession: E/Me
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Quote:
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Mar 17, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36
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#98 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Quote:
See that corner over there? Yea, I'm gonna go sit in it /blush Seriously though, any one side having to rely on the other for access to content, end game or not, is kinda lame. I mean, really... if I log on to play and can't access what I'm after, I'll log and go do something else. This happens a few times, I will, and others probably will as well, lose interest in the game as a whole. I have no interest in FoW and UW for this reason. On the issue of balance that keeps coming up, the game as general keeps getting so unbalanced in terms of the PvE and PvP side of things, it makes me laugh. Mounts, cursed weapons (etc) mentioned above will never happen due to PvP balancing. I can live with that. What I have a hard time swallowing is the fact PvE'ers have to rely on the other side to play the game we want to play. I disagree completely with the PvE and PvP merger. Anyone play Asheron's Call 2? They tried that. It didn't work. Shadowsbane? Yea, that didn't work either. Course, Shadowsbane was 100% PvPRPG, but it failed - the two just don't mix well. Oil and Water was used once in here, and it's true. Forcing one side to do the other ticks them off, and having either side rely or wait on the other will do the same. Anyway, my post was all speculation asking for a confirmation or a "shoot-down" of a fear of mine. I think the concern has been validated though. I'll play the game and I'm sure I'll enjoy it till I'm locked out of content and then end up leaving. I hope it doesn't come to that, but if the scenario takes place, I know I will. Not out of rage (I love the game), but out of boredom... I don't even sit still for five minutes saying "lfg" - if in five minutes I can't find a group, it's henchie time. |
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Mar 17, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15
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#99 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Feb 2006
Profession: Mo/N
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What makes PvE fun for the stock 100% PvE players? World exploration, loot, helping newbs (twink! twink! twink!) and killing stuff.
What makes PvP fun for the stock PvP players? Winning against another team; trying new builds to see how they work, or fighting different builds and learning counters. Oh yeah; and killing stuff. Now, I like some parts of PvP. I don't want them to take that away. Anet won't; the game was originally geared toward PvP. But I like PvE more and I want more stuff in PvE. Anet, when they put in SF, did so with the admission that they were surprised by how large the PvE fanbase was, that they had never expected GWP to gain popularity with the MMORPGers. does anyone here actually think that, after they make an admission like that, that Anet is going to try forcing people to PvP? Its been said several times in this thread: you don't force people to play this game; you force them to play a different game. And, now that Guild Wars has opened the floodgates on Free to Play RPGs, they've created a monster no one can control. What are those five, ten fifteen, seventy F2P games that have been thrown out on this thread stating that, if GWF goes too PvP or too PvE, everyone is going to schism to a new series? Alienate 1 side or the other, Anet loses money. I don't see them doing that. Instead, what I understand from that article is that GWF is going to try making the game more Guild oriented. PvEers cringe at that, used to solo farms... You've forgotten about EQ raids. Large groups of sometimes several guilds pulling together for a common goal; kill the uber boss and get the godly goodies! Now, with GWF, we're seeing the first vestiges of such. Multiple guilds, with different play styles, banding together toward a common goal. PvP guilds banding (or if you preffer, obliviously huddling) together becomes a waste of time since they have less interest in the "mind numbing" farms that PvEers have come to enjoy. PvE guilds, by proxy, will need strong PvP characters so they can go out, get oodles of plat and greens, before returning to give a share of the spoils to their PvP commrades who are busy planning the next seige. People are looking at this and saying 'Oh no! I have to do something I don't want to!" I look at this and say "Hmm. With the right guilds, you could actually start having fun in groups." Can't we all just agree that killing stuff is fun? |
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Mar 17, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05
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#100 | ||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Sep 2005
Guild: Radicals Against Tyrants
Profession: W/
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Ummm guys does anyone read the FAQ anymore?
http://www.guildwars.com/aboutgw/faq...ctions-faq.php PvE stuff Quote:
PvP Stuff Quote:
Go to here and make friends with a PvP guild http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d.php?t=122434 Last edited by Guardian of the Light; Mar 17, 2006 at 03:08 AM // 03:08.. |
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